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Interview: |
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Jodie & Steven Forrest on Synastry & Relationship Astrology |
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The Meta Arts: How did you first find Astrology, or did it find you?
Jodie: I started reading astrology books when I was eight years old, and never stopped. By the time I was in high school I had figured out how to cast a chart with about 75% accuracy-I didn't have the tools or the knowledge to do more at the time-and was doing informal readings for friends. I'd relax from college and grad school by studying astrology and looking at charts, and then when I met Steven, I realized that I could do this for a living.
Steve: I entered astrology through two very different back doors. When I was very young, I got interested in amateur astronomy - building telescopes and observing the heavens. I really lived for that through my early years and my teens-and of course everything I read in "official" astronomy books was really negative about astrology! When I was thirteen, I met someone who taught me about palmistry - hand-reading. I got pretty good at, and it gave me a little bit of shine too . . . made me a little more interesting than the boring egghead I actually was! When I was eighteen, those two roads came together. Astronomy collided with symbol-reading. I got a copy of Joseph Goodavage's "Write your Own Horoscope" - and the next thing I knew I was a 54 year old professional astrologer.
The Meta Arts: How soon after you got into Astrology did you get interested in Synastry or Relationship Astrology?
Steve: I'd say that for me it was pretty much simultaneous. As soon as I began to use astrology to help me understand the motivations of the people in my life, I was doing synastry - really, before I knew the word! I think it's really pretty much inevitable that the mind moves in that direction, unless we're complete hermits.
Jodie: It was simultaneous for me, too.
The Meta Arts: When you met each other how did you feel about your Synastry?
Jodie:His Sun-Jupiter conjunction fall in my seventh house on my Capricorn Moon. I didn't stand a chance!
Steve: I noticed that poor Jodie's Moon was in the middle of Capricorn, where my Sun is, and that her Moon was in her House of Marriage - she was going to be stuck with me, unless I did something to trigger mistrust in her.
The Meta Arts: When doing a Synastry or Relationship reading, how important are the individual natal charts in the bigger relationship picture?
Steve: Hugely so. Everyone's relationship needs and relating style is different. Some people need a lot of drama, and others can't stand it, for example. The natal chart is what tunes us into all those unique individual elements that people bring to a partnership. I spend about a third of my time talking about the individual charts. Another third is about the aspects and interactions between them. And the final third is about the composite chart - the way astrology gets at "the whole being greater than the sum of the parts."
Jodie: I agree.
The Meta Arts: What else besides the natal chart do you look at in a Synastry reading?
Jodie: I pay attention to each chart's interaspects with the other chart, particularly of the Sun, Moon, Ascendant, Mercury, Venus and Mars. For example, a moment ago Steven and I both referred to a major interaspect between us: his Sun-Jupiter conjunction conjuncts my Moon. I also look at house transpositions: for example, Steven's Sun-Jupiter conjunction falls in the seventh house of my own chart. If all of Brad's planets fall in Jennifer's ninth house, then Jennifer's life, if she stays with Brad, is going to involve a lot more ninth-house activity-traveling, learning, philosophizing-than it would if he were not part of her life. I look at the balance of the elements between the two charts, and I spend a lot of time on the composite chart.
The Meta Arts: What is the greatest gift a Synastry reading can give to the two people involved?
Steve: Compassionate, informed understanding of each other.
Jodie:I agree. It raises your awareness of one another. It helps you communicate. It helps you understand what strengths and common ground you share, and also where you are just plain different from one another and will need to compromise.
The Meta Arts: Does Synastry predict the chance of success for a relationship or is it better used in another way?
Steve: Another way, for sure. I really don't think it's the astrologer's role to judge a relationship or predict its outcome. We're there to support it as best we can, that's all. A lot of interesting statistical work is being done currently about relationship astrology, and they're finding real patterns in terms of the kinds of relationships that work and that don't work. But people aren't statistics. With enough love, humility, and sanity, any astrological relationship can potentially be made precious to the two people. And all relationships have "fault lines" built into them .
Jodie: I agree. I think it's unethical and irresponsible for an astrologer to predict the success or the failure of a relationship. Our job is to enhance the couple's mutual understanding.
The Meta Arts: Have you ever seen a relationship that had a bad Synastry succeed, or one with a dynamic Synastry fail? If so, how is this explained?
Jodie: Well, I really think we need to take that word "bad" out of our astrological vocabulary. There's no such thing as a bad aspect or a bad planet or a bad chart. There are challenging aspects, etc., and we can and do make both healthy and less than optimal responses to our aspects or charts, but an aspect itself is neither bad nor good. Similarly, there are no good or bad Synastries. As Steven says, with enough consciousness, love, humility, sanity and consistently responsible actions, any relationship can be made to work. The most astrologically "good" relationship in the world will founder if one or both parties are irresponsible, selfish, unconscious, immature and don't make any effort.
The Meta Arts: What role does the Composite chart play in Relationship Astrology?
Steve: Here's the best way I know to understand the composite chart. If an individual is not responding positively and energetically to the demands of his or her birthchart, that person tends to become depressed, anxious, and petty. Similarly, if a couple doesn't meet the needs of their composite chart, their relationship kind of runs out of gas. They feel flat. Libido evaporates. They either part, or they start sitting in front of the television -- forever.
Jodie: Sometimes it can be of practical assistance to think of the composite chart as sort of a tie-breaking vote. For example, if a couple is confused about what to do for their vacation, and neither one of them has any really strong feelings about it, then if all other things are equal, it would be good for their relationship for them to do something that would meet the needs of their composite chart.
The Meta Arts: How do you synthesize all the information from the various charts so that it make sense?
Steve: That's the million dollar question! It comes down to finding themes and patterns in the symbolism - and to keeping our human hearts engaged in the interpretive process, so we're "feeling" the chart the way we might "feel" a friend.
Jodie: I'd like to emphasize that it takes time and practice. Don't go any faster than you as the astrologer can "feel" the two charts. If you're confused, focus on just the two Sun-Moon-Ascendant blends until you can "feel" them, before you add anything else to the themes and patterns that you're analyzing. In fact, I suggest to students that they do practice synastries for friends with just the couple's Suns, Moons and Ascendants for a while, until they get comfortable. Then they're ready to go deeper.
The Meta Arts: Have any of your methods of doing Synastry or Composite charts changed over the years?
Steve: Incrementally, my understanding of the symbols has always been growing. That's really the heart of it. Technically, I guess the main change is that I've started paying a lot more attention to "whole sign" aspects in synastry. In other words, if your Moon is in Cancer and my Moon is in Aries, I think of them as "square," even if the technical aspect isn't within the official orbs. That's how astrology was done long ago, and I think the old astrologers were right in that regard, at least in terms of synastry.
Jodie: First, a general observation: astrology's a mirror for life, a finger pointing at reality, and as you come to understand yourself and life and people better, you'll understand astrology better too. I like to think that my synastries have gotten wiser as I get older and, I hope, wiser.
I'm trying to think of some details for you--I think I speak less jargon now than I did starting out, and pay more attention to the Moon's nodes.
The Meta Arts: Are there any areas of Synastry or Composite charts that you would still like to research?
Steve: I'm still very torn about whether to set up a composite chart for the latitude of the place where a couple met, or to just forget about location and find the midpoints of all the house cusps. The two techniques produce very similar results most of the time, so it's really hard to tell which approach is right. We're currently working on a sequel to SKYMATES, which will be about the composite chart, so we better figure this one out soon!
The Meta Arts: What has being in your relationship taught you regarding the Astrology of Relationships?
Jodie: I don't know how I could practice synastry or write about it with any depth or helpfulness without the direct experience of this relationship.
Steve: Everything, basically.
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Jodie &
Steven Forrest,
Astrologers
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Steven Forrest
Gazing through astronomical telescopes in his early teens led Steven to begin exploring astrology.
He received a B.A. in Religion in 1971 from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, and shortly thereafter began to establish his astrological practice.
In 1984, Bantam Books published his first book, The Inner Sky. Esquire magazine called it "intelligent, well-written and actually fun." That volume was followed in 1986 by The Changing Sky.
In 1988, with his wife, Jodie Forrest, he released the third volume of the popular Sky trilogy, Skymates (now out of print. A new, expanded version will be published by Seven Paws Press in late 2001.) Steven's fourth book was published by ACS in May 1993. Titled The Night Speaks, it is an extended argument for the intellectual and philosophical plausibility of astrology.
His fifth work, The Book of Pluto, was released in May 1995. Regarding that book, HOROSCOPE magazine described Steven as "not only a premier astrologer, but also a wise man."
His latest book, Measuring the Night: Evolutionary Astrology and the Keys to the Soul, by Steven Forrest and Jeffrey Wolf Green, is based on a series of lectures the authors did together and was co-published by Seven Paws Press and Daemon Press.
Additionally, Steven has written technical articles for most of the major American astrological journals and several national magazines outside the astrological field. He composed the texts for two popular computerized astrological report writers: "The Sky Within" and "SkyLog."
He and his wife Jodie have also written the text for a pair of relationship reports: The Sky We Share and The Single Sky, a joint project with Alphee Lavoie's AIR Software.
In an effort to bring his choice-centered approach to wider audiences, Steven has also written the monthly astrology column for ELLE and SASSY magazines and has appeared on the national cable TV show, "Alive and Wellness," as well as many radio programs around the country.
His work has been translated into several languages, and he travels widely throughout the United States, Mexico and Canada lecturing on astrological topics, although his primary focus is still on his private astrological practice. Most notably, he has taught at Omega Institute, the NY Open Center and the Marion Foundation, and recently addressed the Fellows at Andrew Weil's program in Integrative Medicine at the University of Arizona, Tucson.
Steven is currently Chair of the Kepler College Advisory Council, which is part of an effort to open an accredited astrologically-oriented university in Seattle, WA.
Steven is leading three Apprenticeship Programs, two based in CA and one in Kansas City, KS. Steven won the 1985 Professional Astrologers Incorporated Award for "Outstanding Contribution to the Art and Science of Astrology," and was nominated for a United Astrology Congress Regulus Award in 1992 and 1995.
Of Steven's work, Sting says that he "...manages to disarm the skeptic, as well as debunk the charlatanism that surrounds popular astrology, with language that is as intelligent and cogent as it is poetic."
Steven lives in the woods near Chapel Hill, North Carolina, with his wife, astrologer and novelist Jodie Forrest, and a spoiled black cat, where he entertains himself with his guitars and his garden.
Jodie Forrest
THE ASTROLOGER: Jodie has maintained a busy local and national practice as an astrological counselor, teacher and writer since 1983, when she joined forces with her husband, fellow astrologer Steven Forrest. They travel widely to lecture on astrological topics, and co-authored the book Skymates: Love, Sex and Evolutionary Astrology (Seven Paws Press, 2002).
Jodie has written for magazines and newspapers, published poetry, and her articles have appeared in all the major astrological journals. With Steven, she wrote the text for a pair of relationship reports, The Sky We Share and The Single Sky, a joint project with Alphee Lavoie's AIR Software. Jodie also manages the Forrests' website.
THE NOVELIST: Jodie is also a historical fantasy novelist (The Rhymer and the Ravens: The Book of Fate, Seven Paws Press, 1995; The Elves' Prophecy: The Book of Being, Seven Paws Press, Nov. 1996; and The Bridge: The Book of Necessity, Seven Paws Press, Nov. 1998).
She has a deep interest in medieval history, cross-cultural mythology (see her lecture "Green Men and Women: The Archetype of the Elves"), archetypal psychology, magic, divination and other occult arts.
Her M.A. with highest honors in French and a minor in Spanish, from UNC-Chapel Hill, has proved invaluable to her research. While striving for as much historical accuracy as possible, her first aim is to enthrall readers with a crackling good tale. Fantasy can do just that, while subtly addressing archetypal human themes.
THE PUBLISHER: Jodie founded Seven Paws Press in 1995. She's proud to be the editor and publisher of Measuring the Night: Evolutionary Astrology and the Keys to the Soul, Volume One, by Steven Forrest & Jeffrey Wolf Green.
The first volume was published in Feb., 2000, and the next one in early 2001. Seven Paws Press published a new, expanded version of Steven and Jodie Forrest's synastry classic, Skymates, in 2002. (Please note that Seven Paws Press is not accepting any manuscripts until further notice.)
Jodie and Steven have formed a band, Dragonship, which performs Steven's music around Jodie's narration from her novels of the Norse and Celtic peoples, and their corresponding higher universes of Elves and Norse deities. Steve and Jodie sometimes wonder if this is a new art form.
www.stevenforrest.com
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