Rachel Pollack is a tremendously gifted woman. Brilliant, talented, and spiritual. We found her to be a very down to earth, warm person with a wonderful sense of humor. Rachel is a natural teacher, and there is little wonder why her books, including her latest, "The Forest of Souls, "are so well received by students and professionals, alike. It is that gift of communicating an esoteric, and often complex concept, with a certain warmth, and in a way that connects all the dots.

Interviewing this Tarot Grand Master was like coming home to the roots of Tarot, that place where images provoke meanings that surface from inner places that formed early on.

Her newly re-designed "Shinning Tribe Tarot" (previously, the "Shinning Woman" Tarot) draws from the root of ancient sources and civilizations, building a bridge from the soul, back to that central place we are all innately connected to, but often forget.

Some refer to her images as "Primitive." In an academic art sense, we would agree and say, yes. But it goes further, and perhaps more appropriate to say these images are "Soul Origination," as any Tarot Reader can pick up this deck, and read it from that originating place inside. We found that her deck just seems to take you there, creating the bridge back to the place of origination, and where you always belonged.




The Meta Arts: When did you find Tarot and how did you learn it?

Rachel Pollack: I first started Tarot some years ago. I was totally excited by it. I had not known anything about it, except that it appeared in stories. I had a reading- I really do not remember much about the reading except I was excited by the whole concept. I ended up running around to small shops, looking for cards. I finally found a deck, in an obscure little store in Montreal, and I just began doing it. At that time, there was very very little in the way of books. The only books that were available were either overly simple or overly complicated and abstract. I learned Tarot from the Tarot itself, rather than from teachers or books.


The Meta Arts: When was this? can you place a time when this occurred?

Rachel Pollack: I remember exactly- it was the Spring of 1970


The Meta Arts: How did you attune to the cards? Did you say, pull a card and meditate on it?

Rachel Pollack: That really did not come for some time. about 5 years later. A that time I would pick the cards and tell stories about them. Just after I had gotten the cards, I sat down with a friend and we just looked at each card and told stories about them- made connections to mythology or to fairy tales. It was a very important experience.


The Meta Arts: Favorite deck? Or Decks?

( Laughter)

Rachel Pollack: The Shinning Tribe, of course. And I still like the Ryder deck, after all these years. I like Nigel Jackson, that one is very attractive.


The Meta Arts: What do you feel about the Thoth deck?

Rachel Pollack: I think it is brilliant. It pulls together the work of the Golden Dawn and all that information. I never been bothered about the whole Crowley reputation thing, one way or another. Some of the pictures are wonderful. Some are too watery for my taste.


The Meta Arts: What is your preference in Reading? You are known for a wonderful, more spiritual base than many.

Rachel Pollack: I tend not to do fortune telling, unless it really comes up in a reading-I had one the other day where it came up as a fortune telling hit- but it was something that was very particular and specific.

My favorite is what I call "Wisdom Readings," which is something I developed. It is where I ask the cards questions about spiritual issues, rather than our own personal events.


The Meta Arts: Do you ever come across people who try to push you into doing a Fortune Telling Reading?

Rachel Pollack: Yes, But they are people who want a Tarot Reading, but who have not yet encountered my work. In their minds, they have this sort of Hollywood version of a Tarot Reader who makes these incredibly startling, absolute predictions of the future.


The Meta Arts: In general, how do you feel about predictive work?

Rachel Pollack: Well, it can be wonderful. But at the same time, I sometimes wonder what benefit there is. Sometimes there is, but I feel it is when you can give people options to look at.


The Meta Arts: Back to the more Spiritual Readings

Rachel Pollack: Those as I said, are my favorites, because they really give you something to work with- to explore... to delve into. What is right for this moment- what approach to take now, rather than some other approach. You can really give someone tools for their own spiritual evolution, growth and transformation.


The Meta Arts: What about issues of Reincarnation?

Rachel Pollack: It is really a matter of preference. I have done them, but I don't care much for them. Someone comes to you with a fear of fire, and you find they were burned to death in a past life- I prefer to find life more mysterious than that- more of a constant play with archetypal energies.

The Meta Arts: Do you have any favorite spreads?

Rachel Pollack: For years I did the Celtic Cross. But now I tend to create spreads for people-for the issues they have. I 'll say what do you want to look at in the cards today. I also like to readings that open things up-rather than tell you what is going to happen.

My favorite one is what I call the Doorway Reading, it is also based on the concept of gambling- as we are always taking risks when we do readings, we are always taking risks for life- rather than having it all laid out for us.

In the Doorway reading, there are 5 positions. 2 on top, 1 in the middle, and 2 on the bottom. The first two are:

""What Inspires you?" and "What Challenges you? - What is exciting to your life and what do you find difficult?.

The middle and bottom positions are "What Doorway Opens for you?" and then, "What will you Risk?" and " What will be Discovered? Here it is saying- here is something that is opening up for you, what will the risk be to get it and what will you get from that risk?


The Meta Arts: Do you draw a card a day?

Rachel Pollack: Well, like everyone else, I draw a card a day most often when I have some kind of relationship conflict.

(laughter)


The Meta Arts: How are you able to stay objective?

Rachel Pollack: At first, it was really difficult to read myself. Then over the years it became a lot easier. But when I read, I don't try to get the cards to give me an answer- like what is going to happen. I think that is why I can be more objective. I ask them to show me images that would be useful to me. Therefore, I am not going to be so nervous about it.


The Meta Arts: Are you more an intuitive reader? Or are you more intuitive as a result of the symbols? What do you feel you are connecting with?

Rachel Pollack: That is a good question. It is hard to say what energies pull the cards... that always make them come up so perfect, as they certainly do. I connect with the pictures first of all, rather than the context. I try to see the pictures in new ways all the time.

I call my own impression about them as loving the images. There is a sense of love about it- emotional connection or passion, I find myself returning to the images, rather than staying in intellectual ideas.


The Meta Arts: Did you ever draw cards, perhaps asking for information/advise on a current situation, only to find that the cards made no sense, or did not relate to the situation at all?

Rachel Pollack: Yes, that can and does happen- generally from a very strong outer influence. Some external situation. For example, just before September 11th, Tarot Readers, all over the place, were pulling The Tower card. It just happens.


The Meta Arts: What about timing? Do you use a system?

Rachel Pollack: Some people use a specific method that works for them. I just look at the cards and am able to get a sense of when something will be.


The Meta Arts: Do you consider yourself Psychic?

Rachel Pollack: Well, you know, I'm sort of mixed about that. Certainly not in the Moody way.

(Laughter)

But I sometimes think I am more Psychic than I sometimes pretend to myself to be. I sometimes do these interesting telepathy things- for things that are totally useless.

(more laughter)

I was with 4 or 5 friends and we decided to play a game- let's play a game using ESP. One of my friends said "I'm thinking of an instrument"-and I told them a clarinet and proceeded to tell each one what instrument they were going to say. It was fun- but use there is in that, I don't know.

(laughter)


The Meta Arts: What about repeating patterns in cards? When over a period of time, the same cards keep coming up and get you that feeling someone was trying to tell you something?

Rachel Pollack: I one time did a reading for myself, using the Shinning Tribe. I pulled 3 cards. It was the World in the center, the 6 of Rivers on one side and then the Star. I just had this feeling that if really sat down and looked very, very intensely at it- it would literally rip out all of my life conditionings, which then, I didn't do.

(laughter)

What it said was "OK...I don't have time for this now. I'll do this later, " which is one of the great denial tricks of all time.

(more laughter)


The Meta Arts: What about reading for friends and family? There are readers that won't, for fear of how their loved ones would handle what came up.

Rachel Pollack: There can sometimes be problems from that. But I am just as honest with them, as I am with anyone else. I find that the cards can give them possibilities to be objective. It is a matter of being open to them.

I have a cousin that I read every year, and she would get 5 or 6 of the same cards, every year. The reason was, she never changed. When this happens, it is something you have to look at, something to be worked on.


The Meta Arts: A last question. In forming your own card definitions, and you have so many years experience behind you, is it from an accumulation of circumstances- experiences, or intuition, or both?


Rachel Pollack: It's both. A lot of time, it is also how a card appeared in a particular reading that helps give it definition in other readings. An example of this, is that I had one client who came to me for a reading. She explained she had been the victim of sexual abuse- incest , as a child. Later, I looked back at the reading I had done. The Emperor and the 6 of swords suggested that abuse. The Emperor being the father and the 6 of swords- some painful, awful family secret that was carried along from the past.

Some weeks after that, I went to teach a seminar with Mary Greer, and we all did an exercise where we laid out a whole bunch of cards that have meanings for you. We then picked a partner to read in the evening ( we did not have time to go over it all in the class). I picked this woman, she pulled 20 cards and the first card she pointed to was the 6 of swords, and said, "This card is my incest."

So you can see, here is an example of the exact same card coming up in someone else's reading and having the same definition. Unless you stick strickly to orthodox text, if you allow yourself to work with your intuition, those powerful images will surface and you'll see particular cards that will come up frequently, a pattern, that will give the same meaning.

The Meta Arts: We want to thank you for the time you have given us, and for sharing some of your tremendous knowledge and experience. Now is the time to close this interview and to tell everyone to look for your column in our March Issue:

Soulforest: Tarot and Spirituality
by Rachel Pollack,Tarot Grand Master

and to Click Here to read some wonderful excerpts from "The Forest of Souls"!

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