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Interview:
Rachel Pollack's
Shining Tribe Tarot Deck:
by Robbie G. & Rhonda C. |
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In creating and producing this magazine, we often find ourselves in a moment of realization that the many brilliant individuals presenting the gifts of their hearts and minds, are souls who have come into this time and place to bring a legacy.
We realize that the person submitting this month's article, or the voice on the other end of the phone during an interview, is sharing a moment in their life-process of making a historic entry into the minds of the future.
Effecting our lives as teachers, resources of inspiration and knowledge, the gifts of their minds and hearts are the classic reference works of future generations. They come into this time to help other souls to learn, heal, and grow.
Rachel Pollack , Tarot Grand Master, author, teacher, and artist, is the brilliantly gifted soul who we have come to affectionately refer to as our "Tarot Goddess." Part of Rachel's legacy is the classic work, " 78 Degrees of Wisdom," the "Bible" of the Tarot, and recently, "The Forest of Souls".
In this month's interview, we ask Rachel about another part of her legacy: her creation of a wondrous Tarot Deck, "The Shining Tribe."
The Meta Arts: What brought about the decision to design a Tarot Deck? We were amazed, no... actually blown away, to find that you do not actually have a background in art.
Rachel Pollack: I have no background in drawing at all. I was assuming that I would find someone to draw the pictures. I did little sketches of the cards to guide somebody, and a couple people I talked to... it just did not work out. And so, people said "Why don't you just do it yourself." Nikki St.P , who did the Tarot Sculpture Garden in Italy, suggested that I could do it myself. So, I did it, and she said, "See I was right!" ( Laughter) But at that point , I was working 22 years with the cards and there were so many new decks, I thought it would be really nice to just do my own deck.
The Meta Arts: The design elements, and the way you did them, has us totally fascinated. They are vivid and alive.
Rachel Pollack: One of the most gratifying things about them, apart from any commercial success, is that fine artists seem to be wild about them. They really comment how much they like them.
The Meta Arts: You really do have a talent for creating symbols- petroglyphs, which brings us to asking you how did these images come to you? There are so many cultural influences in them- Aborigine, Native American, African.....so many peoples, and all combined, and interpreted through a perceptive lens of one who really understands Tarot. How did you equate/create the symbols to each card?
Rachel Pollack: They are all from all sorts of different sources. I decided to opt not to plan a system, but rather let the images just come to me. So, it did take longer, and it is more intuitive, so people will have to be willing to react to it that way. It is not what everyone is used to. But they are from all different sources, books that would inspire something, things that came to me...in meditation, dreams I had, places I had visited.
The kind of art that inspired me particularly was Aboriginal Art, and Rock Art of other kinds- European and African Cave Art. I was really steeped in that stuff, and as a result, I would come up with a picture in my mind that I would relate to a Tarot Key or number. And then, sometimes, the number of the card would make me come up with the concept.
As an example, the 9 of Birds, shows a tomb. I had seen a tomb, in Crete, in an ancient cemetery. It was in my mind, but I was not thinking of the bleakness of the 9 of swords.
The Meta Arts: How long did it take you to design this deck?
Rachel Pollack: About 4 years. I was waiting for the pictures to come to me. They did not all come at once.
The Meta Arts: Well, we picked a card-The World, The Shining Woman, can you tell us about that card? You have many symbols here. A turtle, a fish, and all kinds of really neat stuff in there that we love.
The World Card- The Shining Woman, from the Shining Tribe Tarot Deck.
Rachel Pollack: The concept there- there are 2 different kinds of decks, I call them the Esoteric deck and the Sacred deck. The Esoteric has a very precise system of symbolism. The Sacred deck is one that is used to infuse a kind of state of consciousness. So the point there, was not so much what every individual symbol symbolized, although they all do mean something. But the point was there was the concept of the cosmos being within the body.
The body contains all kinds of symbols. Symbols of nature, symbols of human creation and emancipation. So, the fish symbol in Tarot is generally the symbol of the soul. This is the soul returning to its source. Although it depends on what direction it is going. So, it is fairly precise. But the overall importance is the divine body and divine consciousness.
The Meta Arts: Symbols inspire, and facilitate something deeper inside to speak. And working with your deck is definitely a more "soul-based, or "origination-based" experience. It is a particular quality we really love about them.
Rachel Pollack: A lot of people have said that they have had a kind of Shamanic journey-like experience while using them, and many do use them for that.
The Meta Arts: You had redesigned the deck and renamed it from "Shinning Woman" to "Shinning Tribe", what was the reasoning behind that decision? We had read it was because some thought it was a woman's-only deck.
Rachel Pollack: The name change was because I never had intended that was a woman's deck. I meant it as a term for the Goddess. It is for everybody. But because of our culture- a patriarchal culture, it was sort of like a default setting for "woman," rather than both woman and man. People assumed it was for women. If I had called it "Shinning Man," referencing the God, no one would have thought twice about it, except maybe radical feminists. It was funny, because as soon as it became "Shinning Tribe," it became very popular.
But, the publisher was dropping their Tarot Line, and we needed a new publisher. I thought it was an ideal time to make some changes. There were 4 cards I was not entirely happy with. The concepts were fine, but I wanted to do some small changes, like color. And the name Shinning Tribe wasn't just to get away from the from the woman-only thing, it was a way to, at the same time, it let people know it was not exactly the same. It also showed that diviners are a tribe and it showed the tribal roots of the deck.
The Meta Arts: You seem to use spirals a great deal. Apart from simply being a primal, or an ancient shape, what does the usage of this shape mean to you?
Rachel Pollack: Spirals appear in nature. They have a very long occult tradition. The concept of evolution- spiraling upwards, as matter evolving into spirit, going outward into a higher consciousness. Spiraling downwards as spirit evolving into matter.
The Meta Arts: When you designed the deck, did you have the specific concept, or goal in mind for the end result?
Rachel Pollack: Well, I certainly wanted it to be the traditional Tarot Structure of the 4 suits and the Major Arcana cards. I did not want it to be medieval, I wanted a more primitive look. Nor, did I want it to be Medieval Europe, I wanted it to be more widespread than that.
The Meta Arts: We found the cross-cultural, primal human concept of the cards to be a real plus in our experiences with them. It offered a real gut- level, get to the soul-source-root of the matter for us. Even when using them for more mundane Readings, it brought up deeper, and vivid responses. "Soul-Origination" is a better term for this. After studying them a few minutes, we were able to use them easily.
Also, we liked the book that came with the deck. It is really well organized and you have made it very easy to follow. It was simply a matter of learning the suits.
Back of Card Design from Rachel Pollack's "The Shining Tribe Tarot".
The Meta Arts: So, what level of Reading experience do you feel your deck is appropriate for: beginners, advanced?
Rachel Pollack: I think anyone who would be open to the pictures is a great candidate for it. People who are more experienced, or feel more grounded with the structure of the Tarot, and also, people who are fairly new will be able to use them.
The Meta Arts: Do you ever get another "AHA!" moment when reading- from one of the cards you did?
Rachel Pollack: Oh yes, all the time. I'll get new ideas from them, or from people who say something about them that excites them- something they pick up from the cards.
The Meta Arts: Do you ever see yourself doing another deck?
Rachel Pollack: Well, I am actually working with an artist on another deck that is part of a larger, major project.
The Meta Arts: You are not going to draw them, this time?
Rachel Pollack: No, I needed to find someone more technical- someone who can draw different postures and I feel very restricted with that. I can't discuss the details, but, the work is in process, it is part of a large project, and it is one of the world's greatest Tarot artists.
The Meta Arts: Wonderful! Do you have any other projects in the works?
Rachel Pollack: I have a Kabbalah book coming out soon.
The Meta Arts: Is that also from Llewellyn ?
Rachel Pollack: Yes, it is. I am not sure of the date yet, it is in production.
The Meta Arts: Do you feel there are less truly good books now being written on Tarot?
Rachel Pollack: No, I think there are more books being written, so people are given more of a variety. I think there are some very good books being written, for the first time, there are books coming out that are specific subjects in Tarot, rather than just beginner books. There is a whole Llewellyn series of special topics that is very exciting. Reversed cards, Court cards.... very specific things. It is very exciting.
The Meta Arts: Your book, "78 Degrees of Wisdom" is regarded as the Tarot Bible, and no doubt, will be regarded as such for generations to come. How does it feel to leave such a legacy? You have influenced so many of us.
Rachel Pollack: It is a very nice feeling- it really is. To know you have done something that is meaningful to people. People tell me how it has effected their lives... beyond just learning to be a Tarot Reader. Things like how it helped them personally. Like through a divorce, bad times.... It feels really wonderful because you feel you have done something for people.
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Rachel Pollack,
Tarot Grand Master
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Rachel Pollack is a poet, a double award-winning novelist, a visual artist, and a Tarot Grand Master.
Her first book on Tarot, 78 DEGREES OF WISDOM, is often called "The Bible of Tarot readers."
About her SHINING TRIBE TAROT, designed and drawn by Rachel herself, Caitlin Matthews wrote: "The deeper levels of creation run through this pack, with a delightful freedom and wise love."
Her most recent book, THE FOREST OF SOULS, sold out its first printing in less than two months.
In 1988 Rachel's novel, UNQUENCHABLE FIRE, won the Arthur C. Clarke Award. The New York Review of Science Fiction described it as "not only the best fantasy novel of the year, possibly the best of the decade."
In 1997 her novel GODMOTHER NIGHT won the World Fantasy Award. Kirkus reviews wrote of it "It grows inexorably into a magical exploration of the deepest roots of life and death...Tender and disturbing, down-to-earth and wildly inventive."
Rachel's books are sold on six continents, in nine languages.
Rachel first encountered the Tarot in the spring of 1970, when a friend read her cards. She began teaching the Tarot six years later, while living in Amsterdam (where she lived for seventeen years). Since then, she has taught Tarot, and mythology, and creative writing all over Europe and North America. Her monthly class in New York City has been meeting now for eleven years.
Rachel describes her approach to Tarot as "loving the images," a way to constantly return to the pictures, to enter them and allow them to work their magic on us. Her "Wisdom Readings," asking the cards for spiritual truth, have opened the practice of Tarot beyond personal readings to use the cards for what Rachel calls "a navigation system for the soul."
www.rachelpollack.com
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